How to Negotiate Great Benefits
Kent R.
As companies fight to secure talent in this hot job market, we're seeing a lot of interesting incentives – hiring bonuses, bolstered benefits packages, etc. – which is really great for job seekers.
But that doesn't mean that every benefit – even those that sound exceptional, like “Unlimited Benefits” – being presented is great. In fact, some of them aren’t even beneficial.
TRANSCRIPT
(Transcripts are auto-generated and may contain minor errors)
Caanan
As companies fight to secure talent in this hot job market, we're seeing a lot of interesting incentives – hiring bonuses, bolstered benefits packages, etc. – which is really great for job seekers.
But that doesn't mean that everything being thrown around is great. And some of it's not even good.
Caanan
Let's take this question from Nicole. She asks, “a job I'm interested in is offering unlimited time off. Is that as good as it sounds?”
Kent
Finally, a question that is not in our top ten like every question we get.
'Cause this is a relatively… well it's not, it's not that new, but this has become a hot topic in this hot job market where you see all the articles and all the advertisements like, we give unlimited time off.
Now I'm going to be a dream killer.
Because as we're always saying, companies are… they have a lot bigger budgets than we do as individuals, and what companies know is that people do not take the time off that they're entitled to and they've created a kind of fear and resistance around asking for time off.
You know they're putting pressure on senior managers, that's putting pressure on middle managers. It's just making it kind of uncomfortable to be gone for, you know, a week at a time, much less 2 weeks at a time and….
Caanan
“Of course, you can take all the vacation you're entitled to, but…”
Kent
Yeah, yeah, so uh.
You know this was the case before we got into this time of unlimited time off. This sort of unspoken discomfort around taking any time off. Perhaps accepting a long weekend that is around what works around company… major company events and deployments or whatever. So, the statistics show that people don't take time off period and that this culture permeates. Go back and listen to our podcast episode on workism, talking about how workism is so part of the current employment culture that to take time off, you're becoming less competitive than your peers.
You're missing out.
It's just like social media.
You know this, this fear of “if I'm not always at work / If I'm not always on social media, what am I missing?”
So we're in a place where there's a culture of a fear of taking time away – of workism, which the two of us actively work to dismantle in the corporate consulting we do.
But with that, do not be glamoured by unlimited time off. It's something that's attractive to a lot of people. It sounds good. But in practice, it's almost a worse situation than having two weeks off or four weeks off because at least when you have that defined time, there's a sense of, “No. I am entitled to three weeks off a year,” and many people will, you know, kind of force themselves to take it. With unlimited time off, everything gets all wiggly, jiggly, and there's nothing to keep track of. And then, at the end of the fiscal year, you look back and realize you've taken 6 days off and half a day to have a root canal.
You know, and you bought into this thing because it was this great…
Caanan
…Maybe you still feel bad about the time you took off…
Kent
Unlimited time off.
Yeah, and you still feel bad for taking six and half days off.
When evaluating offers ,just stay as level headed as possible. And I will say that something people don't do…. It's not just about compensation, it's about compensation and benefits, so you have to look at that full package.
And I know there's more questions of that ilk that you want to talk about too.
Caanan
OK, so a lot of people wonder if they should be more concerned with pay or with the company's culture.
What do you think is the right way to look at this pay versus culture question?
Kent
Yeah it's funny too. 'Cause you know what? I, in my mind, kind of look at culture as a benefit.
Caanan
Oh 100% yes.
Kent
I look at that as part of the equation and I think, taking my own advice, the most succinct I can be about this is to say it's not an either or thing.
I can't believe the people we work with who get so hung up on one thing. “They have a great adoption benefit” or “I'm getting paid 12% more than at my last job.” But then when we look at the whole package, right, it's like, “Yeah, well they have a $5000 adoption benefit, but you're going from 5 weeks off to 2 weeks off.
Caanan
Yeah, I'm claiming a new phrase right now. We're going to call that a single-issue employee.
Kent
Yeah, really. So, it's not an either or thing. And let me just say now – 'cause there's a lot of sort of bashing pay and, you know, kind of making it sound like pay doesn't matter.
Your pay equals value.
If you don't feel like you're being valued, the culture and these other benefits don't matter. So we are not two people who are going to tell you, like, “don't focus on the pay,” or “the money will come.”
Pay does matter. It's a critical component.
Do not be won over by great benefit but bad pay, because that is your value. And I'll tell you, what you agree to come in at – and we could do how many episodes on this? – what you agree to come in at is critical and that's why companies know that if they swing this the right way – they catch you excited, “You're getting the job offer,” – they know exactly the psychological state you'll be in and you're not very likely to negotiate out of excitement. And they bring you into a place that, over the years of your employment, there will be very advantageous to them. So, we always say “sit down, count to 10. Never give an instant answer on the phone. And really evaluate everything.” Remember, too, you always have to be paid your value and more pay cannot overcome a bad culture, so it works both ways.
Caanan
You need both.
You need good pay that makes you feel valued, and you need a culture that values you.
Kent
Yeah, well put.
Caanan
All right, last question.
If a company you're really interested in isn't offering the kind of benefits you're interested in, can you negotiate them?
Kent
Yeah, it's this is such a great question.
I think you and I are probably – shocked is not too strong of a term – regularly when we learn what companies we work with and people we work with who are working for these companies are interviewing, the things they will and won't budge on.
And I have gotten to the place in the last few years – this is kind of an arm of the business that I oversee – that everything is negotiable.
Sometimes the most surprising things aren't negotiable. So, for instance, if you've been an executive at a company or a senior level person and say you've gotten 4 weeks off or 6 weeks off. If another top tier company is going to recruit you over and you're at that level they'll usually match the vacation you had because, you know, as a seasoned professional with X experience, it's a no brainer. But there's times when even top tier companies won't budge on that.
…as a senior person, you'll start at maybe 3 weeks or 4 weeks, but they will not match your 6 weeks.
On the other side of the spectrum, we've worked with companies that will pull a benefit out of thin air.
You know, if somebody says, “Oh, my last company had this benefit or an adoption credit, or…” – let's use that again – or something. And maybe the company won't materialize the benefit, but they'll materialize a financial component to cover the loss of that benefit.
So, I think the theme here in this podcast is evaluate everything.
Pay on the one side and on the other side benefits, which includes culture, and look at every single component as being negotiable.
Kent
And advice we give people – and isn’t this one of the most exciting ways that we empower candidates , when we give candidates at this late stage advice on this very part of the process?
It's so exciting to see how they get so emboldened because they've gotten the offer. They've made it through all the first stage, as many of the things we talked about early in this podcast series – Great job search documents, speaking to their impact succinctly, speaking to the impact they can make at the company succinctly, going through interviews with similar excellence. And they’re now at this point where the ball is in their court. So, we give them these tips on how to negotiate.
You know, take a certain amount of time before you accept the offer.
No, you're not going to do it on the phone.
You're going to do it on your terms, not their terms. And how to get back to every single point with really thoughtful questions that don't turn off the employer – more than anything show they've made the right decision 'cause you're thoughtfully, respectfully, just kind of gone through all the details of the offer and how they can best align with your needs and your value so that you can feel great about accepting this offer.
It's an exciting thing
So, when it gets to that point, do not buy into the excitement with a desperate yes.
Caanan
Don't pressure out.
Kent
Yeah, this is when things get really exciting, and the ball is totally in your court.
